Bullz-Eye: Well, I was able to watch the first two episodes…

Lorenzo Lamas: Oh, yeah…? How did you like it? What did you think about it?

BE: It was great. I liked the first season, but I never actually saw the second season. But this looks like it’s right on par with what the show’s been like before.

LL: From what I gather, the guy they cast for this “Schmo” is a lot different than the first guy. And what I’m gathering is that…the first guy was just a really great, friendly, open, more innocent kind of guy. Like, a real Joe Schmo, y’know? [Laughs.] Whereas I found Chase to be a very analytical, intelligent, not quite as naïve guy.

BE: Yeah, he seemed like a sweetheart, but he also seemed like a guy who really wanted to win, too.

LL: Yeah, really competitive. Absolutely.

BE: So how did you find your way into this? Did they approach you, or was there a casting call and you heard about it?

LL: You know, John Stevens and I had done something last year together – a pilot for an action show, a hybrid that was part reality, part scripted – so we met on that project, and then when Sharon Levy talked to John about doing this version of “Joe Schmo,” John says, “Well, what do you think of Lorenzo Lamas?” So he kind of brought it up to Sharon, and then Sharon asked, “Does Lorenzo do comedy?” Because the whole idea is this 10-day-long improv where everyone’s in character and they have to really stay in character. So John called me and said, “I’ve got something that’s kind of out of left field, but…would you be interested in doing this show?” And then he kind of formulated a pitch to me. And I had just finished doing “The Eric Andre Show,” and I loved it. That was improv, too. I did one episode, then they brought me back and did another episode. I’d just finished doing it, so I said, “You know, John, I think this might be meant to be…” Because prior to that, I’d also done a couple of episodes of the Nickelodeon show “Big Time Rush.” I played Doc Hollywood, who’s a bigger-than-life character, almost slapstick comedy. And I’ve been enjoying that. I’ve been enjoying the change, wrapping my mind around just…not doing action, y’know?

BE: Did they give you advance warning as to how much, uh, disrobing would be required of you on “The Joe Schmo Show”?

LL: You mean how revealing the part would be? [Laughs.] Yeah, that was John Moore. When I told John Stevens that I’d love to be a part of the show, then I went in to talk to J-Mo – John Holland Moore – about the nuts and bolts of how we were going to do this, and one of the first questions that John asked me was, “How comfortable are you wearing a Speedo on television?” I was, like, “Well, I’ve gotta know you better, J-Mo…” So I figured it’s either gonna be a show that’ll resonate with the public, or it’s gonna be a show that’ll basically shun me from the public.

BE: Either way, you can probably count on headlines along the lines of, “Another side of Lorenzo Lamas.”

LL: You know, you kind of have to just go for it. Listen, they say that being an actor, a real actor, is being fearless. And you kind of have to go to the wall with your character, beyond what you may feel are your own personal limitations. I don’t thrive on public exposure. It’s not in my nature to do that. But for this character…it was perfect for this hyper-diva character I was playing.

BE: Okay, I’ve got some flashbacks for you, if you’re up for it.

LL: Sure!

BE: First of all, I’m curious if IMDb is accurate on your supposed first onscreen appearance: did you indeed play an Indian boy in the movie “100 Rifles”?

LL: [Laughs.] I was an extra on one day of shooting in that movie, yes. My dad put me in that. I showed up on location one day to hang out with him in his trailer, and I was driving him crazy. I mean, I was 10 years old, just following him around the set. All of a sudden, he says [In a perfect Fernandos Lamas impression.] “Lorenzo, we have to find something for you to do.” And he took my hand, and he dragged me to the wardrobe trailer, and he asked the wardrobe assistant, he says, “Can you give my kid a wig and some clothes? He’s going to be an Indian boy for the rest of the day.” [Laughs.] So that was my debut, if you will.

BE: Did you always know that you wanted to follow in his footsteps, or did it just kind of happen?

LL: No, I actually didn’t. I didn’t even entertain the thought of being in acting until after high school, after I’d gone to a year of college and things just weren’t clicking academically for me. It was a scary moment. I’m sitting in my van in a parking lot at Santa Monica City College, thinking, “This police-science course is really difficult. What the hell am I gonna do with myself?” And it just struck me at that point, thinking that maybe there was a way for me to learn how to act and to follow in my dad’s footsteps. Also, y’know, in high school, I…I wasn’t thin. I wasn’t athletic-looking. I was overweight. I had a pretty heavy insecurity complex. So I never thought of myself as being able to live up to my father and fill his shoes. There was no fricking way I would ever assume that I could do that. So I kind of put that aside. But by the time I got to college, I’d shot up a little bit, put on some muscle, and I had a little bit more confidence in myself. I was swimming for the college team, and I said, “Well, if you’re gonna try something, idiot, you might as well try it now before it’s too fricking late, and you’re gonna be pumping gas and parking cars for the rest of your life.”

So I did. I drove to my dad’s house, and I said, “I think I wanna leave college and be an actor.” And there was a long pause…and he said, “No fucking way, asshole.” [Laughs.] He said, “You’re going to be an attorney or a business major or…” I said, “I’m not feeling that, Dad.” And he looked at me again, and he said, “Okay, then. Well, before you make a fool out of me, you’re going to do a scene with Esther (Williams),” my stepmother. And I did an improv scene with her that day, and he picked up the phone and called Tony Barr, who was an executive at CBS at that time, and…Tony was running a school in Burbank called the Film Actors Workshop. And I started going there at night, working during the day as a trainer at Jack LaLanne’s, which was a health spa back in the day. And I did their course, and after their course, my teacher, Laura Rose, said, “Go out there and start auditioning.” And that was 1976. And the first real television that I got was for a sitcom pilot, ironically, for James Komack, who wrote “Chico and the Man” and “Welcome Back, Kotter.” I auditioned for this part, and I got it, and it was “Whatever Happened to Dobie Gillis?” I was a character that they added in. My name was Lucky, and I was a box boy at a grocery store. And that was it. So here we are now, 30 years later, and I’m back doing comedy. [Laughs.] It’s just weird, y’know?

BE: One of your first major TV gigs, “California Fever,” actually puts you within two degrees of “Downton Abbey”: Elizabeth McGovern was a guest star in one of the episodes.

LL: Absolutely! I think her character actually had a storyline with Jimmy McNichol rather than mine. But then after that show, which was in 1979, I didn’t really see much of her. She started to do a couple of movies, and then I didn’t see much of her. But she was always a really good actress, I certainly remember that.

BE: You were in “Grease,” which is not a bad film to have on your resume.

LL: Are you kidding? It’s like having “The Sound of Music” on there. [Laughs.] It’s an incredible thing for something like that to happen. Now, I was a very small part of that movie. I basically was a glorified extra, if you will. I mean, I didn’t even have a line in that picture! But to think of how exciting it must’ve been for Jeff Conaway or Dinah Manoff or Didi Conn, these – at the time – kids, some of whom who’d performed on stage in “Grease,” playing other characters in some cases, and then for it to become a Paramount picture in national release with John Travolta…wow, it must’ve just been so exciting for them. I mean, it was exciting to me, but I’d only been acting for eight or nine months.

I just happened to get in on the end of casting for the T-Birds. They had cast all the parts, and I walked into Allan Carr’s office, with Allan and Randal Kleiser, and they just started asking me what I was into. I told them, “Well, I’m a physical trainer, and I pump gas.” [Laughs.] “But I really want to be an actor!” And they said, “Oh, okay, well, we don’t have anything for you at this time, but we’re really happy to have met you, and we wish you all the best, and we know that, with your parents, you’re bound to do good things.” I mean, it was just a very polite…

BE: Kiss-off?

LL: [Laughs.] Yeah, basically. A very polite way to say, “You’re not going to be in our movie.” And it wasn’t long after that…I think they had gone into rehearsals about two weeks prior to me getting another phone call, my agent saying, “You’re going in to replace Steven Ford as the hunky football player.” And I said, “Really?” So that was that. I had no experience, either in dancing or even acting, pretty much, except for going to that school. So to have a part in a movie that was that iconic was pretty amazing.

BE: Within a few years of that, though, you were on “Falcon Crest.”

LL: Well, a little bit after that. We filmed “Grease” in 1977, it was released in ’78, and then “California Fever” was ’79. From there, I did a couple of small-budget movies. One was for Rudy Durand with Brooke Shields called “Tilt.” And I did a movie for Kieth Merrill, who won a Best Documentary Oscar for “Greatest American Cowboy,” called “Take Down.” It was a movie about high school wrestling for Buena Vista, which was basically Disney. It was my first real leading role, and it was kind of a “Rocky”-esque story about a kid in high school who has an alcoholic father, and he faces all the odds, he’s failing at school, and he becomes the star wrestler on the high school team and graduates. You know, actually, it’s less “Rocky” and more like “All the Right Moves.” Basically, I was just kind of bouncing around, getting a part here, a part there, a break here, a break there. But nothing really happened until 1982, when I got “Falcon Crest.” I did a couple of pilots for Lorimar and…oh, actually, one series did go. It was called “Secrets of Midland Heights,” with Robert Hogan, Bibi Besch, and Linda Hamilton. That was Lorimar, and it went nine episodes. But after that, nothing until “Falcon Crest.”

BE: Was it a long audition process to get “Falcon Crest”?

LL: Fairly long, yeah. They had a lot of characters to cast and a lot of actors who wanted to be in it. [Laughs.] I think I read two times for the writers, and then one more time for the producer and the director, and then they liked the audition, so I went to test for the network executives, which was another audition.

BE: So given your parentage, was Jane Wyman a family friend?

LL: Jane Wyman was a family friend. I’d never met her, but she knew my father because he did her show, “The Jane Wyman Show.” It was a 90-minute variety show. My mom was pregnant with me at the time, and after the first act, the stage phone rang, and it was the hospital where my mother had to be taken because of an emergency. I was being born, and it wasn’t a normal birth situation. My mother was having difficulties with me. And they called Dad, and Dad left Jane…on live television! During the commercial break, he took off! So when I first met Jane, she kind of laughed about it and made a joke, like, “I hope you don’t leave me without a second act like your father did.” [Laughs.]

But we became very, very close. She was like my grandmother. She really was. She played my grandmother on TV, and I really respected her and listened to her a lot like you would a real grandmother. That show was like my graduate school. There were some wonderful actors on that show – Robert Foxworth and David Selby and Susan Sullivan – and then we had a great guest cast. Cesar Romero came in, Cliff Robertson…and, gosh, I mean, Robert Taylor! All these great iconic actors…and here I was, this twentysomething young idiot, just hoping not to bump into furniture, make my mark, and not look like a fool. I learned so much on that show.

BE: When the show had run its course, did you have a desire to leave television and move into film, or did you immediately go looking for another series?

LL: No, y’know, I was on that show for nine seasons, and it was a scripted drama, and…I grew up watching Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris and Sean Connery and all these great action characters, and after nine seasons of being on a soap opera, I really wanted to try to do action. And I told my agent that I really wanted to go and try to break into the action genre, which was starting to really take off, and he said, “Well, let’s see what we can get going here.” He reached out to a Canadian company called Cinepix, who were doing low-budget action movies in Montreal, and they sent my agent a script called “Snake Eater.” And the first thing I said was, “They’ve got to change the title. Because no one’s gonna know what ‘Snake Eater’ is, and even if they do, it’s not gonna be attractive.” [Laughs.] But I wanted to do the part, because it was a really good role. He was a loner, the kind of part I wanted to play. A hero, a stand-up guy, a cop that was an ex-Marine, so he had a back story. So I agreed to sign on to do that, and I did three of those, pretty much back to back. And during the late ’80s and early ’90s, that really broke open my acting opportunities. Because, y’know, the industry knew I could act because I’d done drama for so long, but they didn’t really know I could do action.

So that kind of helped to open that door, and then Stephen Cannell asked me to play Reno in “Renegade,” and that’s when I was really able to bring it full circle and use my acting chops along with my karate chops, if you will. [Laughs.] And that was a very successful genre for me. I did five seasons of “Renegade,” and in between seasons of “Renegade,” I would do action movies that would go to video. But that marketplace was just booming back then. I mean, direct-to-video was a huge market, and I had a very strong foreign name because of “Renegade” and because of “Falcon Crest,” so it was very easy to get financing just based on the fact that I was doing the picture. So I did a lot of those.>

But then around 2001, I finished my last action show for television, one called “The Immortal,” and there was nowhere left for me to go, because one-hour syndicated television was drying up and the foreign companies that financed the straight-to-video movies were not buying any American talent or doing American scripts anymore. They were producing their own shows and their own movies in their country. So I was really just kind of stuck, not knowing where I was going to get the next paycheck. So I raised my kids. [Shrugs.] I raised my daughters, who are pretty much teenagers now, and…I was glad to have had the time to really be a dad, to really do that the right way. And to do a little stage, a little theater. And that pretty much kept me busy until a couple of years ago, when I started to do a little comedy. I did “Big Time Rush” for Nickelodeon, I did an animated show called “Phineas and Ferb,” where I played the character Meap, and a little more comedy here and there, including episodes of “Reno 911!” and “NTSF: SD: SUV.” And then John Stevens called me and said, “Would you like to come on board and really push the limits of your comedic abilities?” [Laughs.]

>I really, really enjoy the process of comedy. I’m even taking a stand-up comedy class and getting some experience onstage doing stand-up. I had a cabaret show I was doing up until about a year or so ago, and I think that gave me the confidence. Also, doing the soap opera “The Bold and the Beautiful,” which is shot pretty much live. I mean, it’s obviously tape-delay, but they shoot it like a live television show. There’s very little rehearsal, and you don’t get another take, so you have to come on camera ready to go. And I think that experience really helped solidify my confidence and my acting. So now I can walk around in a blue Speedo and be okay with it. [Laughs.]

BE: Okay, just a few more things to wrap up. First of all, I can’t not ask you about “Body Rock.”

LL: I wanted to do that movie so bad…and my manager did not want me to do that movie. [Laughs.] And I fought and I fought, and he finally said, “Okay, dammit, if you want to do it that bad, then go ahead and do the movie. At least I got a friend of ours in it: Ray Sharkey.” I said, “Oh, cool!” Because my manager at the time was handling me and Ray and Ken Wahl. To this day, I look at that movie and I go, “Why didn’t it work?” You know, it was the perfect time for that movie, it had a great soundtrack… I think what it was was that it was at the tail end of a string of movies like “Beat Street” that were basically…the hip-hop culture at that time was really still almost underground, and we had a very strong urban audience. The movie opened for New World to respectable numbers, but we didn’t have that second weekend, y’know? I think the numbers weren’t that big for what the studio was expecting. But I liked the movie.

BE: You got a small hit single out of it, too.

LL: Yeah!

BE: Which is no doubt on YouTube, although I should’ve checked that before we chatted.

LL: I don’t think so. I don’t think it is! [Laughs. ]

BE: Well, if it is, you can count on it being posted with the interview.

LL: I was pissed that it didn’t make the studio soundtrack, actually. Because I was under contract to Scotti Brothers Records, so I couldn’t do the studio album. My single couldn’t be included on the studio album. Which is too bad, because that studio album for “Body Rock” did really well. But, hey, listen, you chalk it up to experience, and you walk away from stuff that you do without understanding why it didn’t perform well, but you look back on it, and…well, it’s like a movie, actually. There’s a storyline, and one thing leads into something else because you’ve met this people on this thing. Which is why I’m here doing comedy and feeling very comfortable about it.

BE: You’re in the promo for Michelle Beadle’s new series, “The Crossover.” How did that come about?

LL: They just wanted the craziest bunch of reality-show dropouts that they could think of. [Laughs.] So it’s me, Gary Busey, Jose Canseco, Kara Todd, Dennis Rodman… And when I got that, I asked, “Well, who else is doing the commercial?” And they said, “We can’t tell you.” So I didn’t know who I was going to be doing the commercial with until I got to the set that day. Oh, it was crazy, man. Because I knew Jose from before, so we were friends. Gary Busey and I have worked on probably a dozen movies together that went straight to video, so I knew Gary. Anyway, we just had fun.

BE: Lastly, is there any project you’ve worked on over the years that didn’t get the love you thought it deserved?

LL: I’ve got to say “Body Rock.” And probably “Take Down,” the wrestling picture I did. I think the problem with “Take Down” was that Buena Vista didn’t really know how to market a PG-rated picture. It was the first PG-rated film that Disney ever distributed under their banner. Of course, then they later formed Touchstone. It would’ve been great if it’d been under Touchstone. But I think its timing was off, and that was a disappointment, because I was really hoping that that movie was gonna kick off a motion picture career for me. It got a major theatrical release, it was a decent movie with a great story and a great cast, including Edward Herrmann and Kathleen Lloyd. But, y’know, you never know. You never do know. And that’s what makes this show, “The Joe Schmo Show,” both exciting and scary for me. Because people who know me don’t know me as a comedy actor. So I’m hoping that they dig it. But I just don’t know. I guess I’ll find out on Wednesday morning, right? [Laughs.]

Bullz-Eye: With your performance on “The Middle,” you’re quickly developing a reputation as one of the most fearless comediennes on television.

Eden Sher: Wow, thank you! I appreciate that. I’ll try to limit the growth of my head after a compliment like that. [Laughs.] When people say that, though, I’m not sure how to take it, because it doesn’t seem…I feel like if you’re not going big, if there’s any sort of fear in the way or if there’s any thought process that gets in the way of being funny, you’re not going to be funny. So I don’t really consider it to be a special thing. I’m just doing my job!

BE: Well, you’re certainly not afraid to “Sue it up” as far as your appearance goes, but you also seem to be game for any and all physical comedy gags.

ES: Yes! Yes, I am, because I say the sweatier I am, the more bruised I am, the dirtier I get, the funnier it probably will be! [Laughs.] Because, I mean, you know the scene when I’m practicing to be the mascot, with the cardboard box on my head? I have realized this: falling or hitting something or physically hurting yourself is always funny. In real life or TV. Always is.

BE: So do you have any formal training as far as physical comedy goes?

ES: Uh, you mean aside from being clumsy and accidentally hurting myself? [Laughs.] No! I mean, I’ve taken acting classes forever, but I’ve actually never even taken a class that’s strictly comedy. I’ve taken improv classes before, but not a comedy class, per se. Do they offer physical comedy classes? Is that actually something they do?

BE: Not being an actor myself, let’s say, “Sure, they do!”

ES: [Laughs.] Well, either way, I’ve never actually taken one.

BE: DeAnn Heline has confirmed that it was actually you who went careening across the countertop in “The Test” last season, but did you do the swing set face-plant in this year’s season premiere (“The Last Whiff of Summer”)?

ES: That was not. I tried to do it, and I just…it was too dangerous. But it did take awhile, because it’s actually the stunt girl you see walking to do it, too, and it was quite an ordeal having to help her master my walk. [Laughs.] I had to show her how to walk like Sue! But I will say, because this is something you don’t even see my face for, that the mascot face-plant…? That was me in the suit. That was actually me.

BE: Is that a regular occurrence? How much of what we see the mascot doing is you inside the suit?

ES: Anytime I’m doing anything physical other than standing, it’s me. All of the dancing stuff, that’s all me.

BE: Regarding to the physical transformation, what’s involved in the process of turning Eden Sher into Sue Heck?

ES: Well, first of all, I appreciate you noting that there is actually a transformation required! But it’s actually helped me to retain my anonymity a lot, because either people aren’t expecting it, or…I usually get, “You know, you look a lot like that girl on that show? Have you seen it?” It’s not actually that extensive of a process, because it’s mostly a case of coming in with dirty hair…oh, but I’m revealing too much. [Laughs.] Seriously, though, what happens is that I usually don’t wash my hair, because they have to flatten it out and make it a little stringy-ish. Or stringier than it usually is, anyway. And then they don’t put any makeup on me. They kind of fill in my eyebrows to make ‘em a little bushier. And then they just put the braces in, and that’s pretty much it.

BE: You’ve obviously revealed, if perhaps unintentionally, that there’s a bit of Sue in you at all times, but do you have any sort of Sue mindset that you try to get into before filming?

ES: That’s a good question, but…I think I actually think much less about it than people give me credit for. It sort of was a revelation during Season 1, when I was getting too act-y about it and I would kind of try to justify every single step of the way. There was a turn I had to do – I think it was in Episode 8 – where I had to flip from extreme sadness to extreme jubilation, as Sue often does, and I was having a lot of trouble executing the joke because I was trying to justify it in my head. I was, like, “I don’t understand how someone could be that sad and then go straight into being exuberant. It doesn’t make sense. It’s not real. I can’t do that. I can’t do it!” The director was, like, “You are thinking about this way too much. There is no justification. There is no actor justification. There is no, like, intellectual justification for why someone would be that way, because there is no justification for why someone would ever be that way. That’s just how she is. That’s just how it’s going to be. If she’s sad one second and then exuberant, that’s how Sue is, and…just accept it.” And I was, like, “Oh, my God, this is a lesson for life!” [Laughs.] Sometimes you can’t rationalize something. It just is. And since then, I don’t think about getting into Sue or why she does the things she does. I just sort of let it be and let it go.

BE: Yet at this point, now that you’ve been doing the character for so long, you probably know her well enough at this point that you actually could rationalize why she does the things she does.

ES: Totally. It was weird when, last year, I realized that…it just sort of clicked. I really kind of got the character. Like I said, I still don’t really do anything, but there’s definitely now a distinct difference between when I’m acting as Sue and when I’m just being myself. A lot of Sue has come to light just through acting it out, not through thinking about it.

BE: How did you find your way onto the show in the first place? Was it a standard audition situation, or did they know you from your earlier work on ABC’s “Sons and Daughters”?

ES: I don’t think they did. It was a very standard audition. I actually didn’t even meet with the producers until, like, four auditions in or something. I had a bunch of pre-reads, so I kept going back under the impression that these were callbacks, but they 100% were not callbacks. They were also bringing new people in that they hadn’t seen. So I was getting increasingly insulted, but my manager was, like, “No, just keep going back, they want to see you.” And I was, like, “No! They don’t want to see me, because they still want to see more girls. They want to see other girls, and I don’t even think they like me, because they’re still bringing back other people. So, no, I’m not going back!” And finally my manager said, “Okay, this one is a real callback, it’s with the producers, would you just go?” And I went…and they seemed to hate me! [Laughs.]

I was going, “I’m not doing this right, they don’t like me, this is stupid, I’m never gonna get this job…” Plus, all the other girls were, like, 12 years old, and I was 17 years old at the time. But my manager said, “They like you! Just keep going back!” And finally the number of 12-year-old girls started to dwindle, and by the time of the actual screen test, it was between me and two 11-year-olds. And at that point, I was, like, “Okay, if they want a younger girl, they’re gonna go for the younger girl,” so I sort went in there going, “All right! This is me! Let’s see what we can do!” And I left the screen test feeling like, “Okay, well, I bombed that one. Oh, well.” And then I got the call about an hour later, saying, “You got it! They loved you!” And I cheered. [Laughs.] “All right! I did it!”

BE: Your onscreen parents were both well-established sitcom figures: Patricia Heaton from “Everybody Loves Raymond” and Neil Flynn from “Scrubs.” Did you find it intimidating to be paired with them? Or were you even a fan of those shows?

ES: Oh, yes. “Everybody Loves Raymond” was a show that my family watched. “Raymond,” “Seinfeld,” and, uh, “Felicity.” I’m not sure how appropriate it was that we watched “Felicity” together, but those were the shows that we watched as a family. So I went in, and I was, like, “Okay, I’m not going to be intimidated, this is gonna be just fine.” And it was the same with “Scrubs.” I loved Neil, loved The Janitor. And I tried. I really tried not to be intimidated. But if you can tell anything from this conversation thus far, you can probably tell that I’m not really what you’d call a chill person. [Laughs.] So I tried my best to be super-chill, but I doubt I was. But thankfully they were super-nice from the get-go and really warm and welcoming, so it was all good.

BE: You and Charlie McDermott and Atticus Shaffer all seem to get along well off-screen. How did you guys first start bonding?

ES: I don’t know, we just…instantly fell into that brotherly/sisterly dynamic. I think acting with someone, you automatically are putting yourself in the position to be vulnerable, and I think that’s really the key to getting close to someone fast. If you’re both in the position to embarrass yourself, then you’re both gonna be more empathetic towards each other and you’re just gonna feel closer as people. And with Charlie, we’re really close in age, and we just realized that we’re both really cool people. [Laughs.] So that helped. And Atticus…I mean, he was just a super-cool little kid!

BE: It’s got to be rough on him this season, with his voice changing.

ES: Uh, yeah. I would not have wanted to go through that onscreen. [Laughs.] But he’s handling it like a pro!

BE: Sue’s evolved over the run of “The Middle,” thankfully, but in the early episodes of the series, were you ever concerned that she was being portrayed as a complete loser a little too much?

ES: Well, I wasn’t concerned, because I was playing her, and Sue wasn’t really all that concerned about it, so it was an easy thing to not think about. [Laughs.] But I definitely got concerns from my friends and family, who were, like, “How hard is it to play this girl that’s always losing?” “It’s fine. She doesn’t care, so I don’t!”

BE: Has it ever bothered you that she might seem too clueless? Not that there’s anything wrong with being perpetually optimistic, but there are moments where it’s, like, “I know this is a comedy, but in the real world, she’d be eaten alive!”

ES: It’s never really bothered me, but I can understand that. I mean, there are certain things that Sue does where I’ve gone, “Okay, this is too naïve even for Sue. This is pushing it a little bit.” But I think you have to suspend disbelief for a little bit. Like, with the French-kissing bit, it was a little bit…I was, like, “Okay, she’s 15, she’d probably know what French kissing is.” [Laughs.] But for the joke, it sort of worked. In that sense, though, yeah, I was a little concerned that she might be being portrayed as a little too innocent. As far as the losing goes, though, no, I’ve never had a problem with that. It’s actually way easier to be optimistic than you think, even as a teenager. Because you can control it. If you’re a happy person, if you can see things through that lens, then you generally do.

BE: What would you say that you’ve brought to the character of Sue that you can specifically say, “That was my contribution”?

ES: Well, there are a few things. One of the lines that they’ve sort of written in regularly now…it was the first time I just felt so good about the way I’d delivered something, but the line was written simply as Sue asking, “Really?” And…I don’t know, but I just decided to say it in a really funny way. And a few episodes later, they wrote in the script in italics or whatever, “In classic Sue style, ‘Really?’” And I was, like, “What?” They said, “Yeah, the way you said it before, that was just perfect.” That’s just something I kind of do in real life, so that was great.

Also, Sue’s victory dance? I am proud to take credit for that dance. Only because it seems so ridiculous that you’d be, like, “Wow, who made that up? I can’t imagine how they would’ve choreographed that…” And I’m proud to say that no one did, because I do that in real life! [Laughs.] We were thinking what would be the best way for Sue to be super-excited, since she’s already super-excited all the time, anyway, and I was, like, “Well, I don’t know, but this is what I do when I’m super-excited.” And I launched into the dance, and they were just, like, “Done. You got it. We’re going with that.”

BE: Were you disappointed that Sue’s most recent boyfriend, Matt (Moisés Arias), only lasted for a few episodes before moving away, or did the whole idea of a romantically-successful Sue comprise the integrity of the character?

ES: I was a little disappointed, mainly because Moises is, like, the coolest guy. So, yeah, I was disappointed that I didn’t get to work with him for longer, but, no, I don’t think it compromised the integrity of the character. [Laughs.] But at the same time, it…well, it was what it was, but I did sort of think it got played out. Which unfortunately happens in TV.

BE: But they’ve been very good about not overusing the characters of Sue’s friends, Brad and Carly, thankfully.

ES: Yes! In fact, I’m actually on set right now and just finished filming a scene with Brock (Ciarelli), who plays Brad. It’s nice that they’ve let Brad in particular be more of a character rather than a caricature, which I’m super pleased about.

BE: Actually, my AV Club review of “The Hose,” I made particular note of how pleasant it was to see Brad turn up without the recurring “Sue doesn’t realize he’s gay” gag.

ES: Yes! Oh, my God, I totally, totally agree. In fact, I…well, I read the script, but I tend to forget about scenes that I’m in, let alone the ones I’m not in, so when I watch the episode, it seems like new. [Laughs.] But when I saw that episode…well, for one thing, it was odd to actually watch that scene and not be in it, because I’m usually the one filming with Blaine (Saunders, who plays Carly) and Brock. But it was just such a perfect Brad scene, with him talking about all the different ways he was available to chat and nothing to do with anything about him being gay or whatever. It was just perfect. I love that direction.

BE: You may not be able to speak to this if it’s already in the cards, but do you think the “Sue doesn’t realize he’s gay” joke is played out? Not that it hasn’t been funny, but at this point, it seems like we’ve really got to be on the cusp of Sue going, “Oh, my God, you’re gay!”

ES: Yeah, I think it’s something that…it’s a scene that will probably continue in some fashion, but I agree that the latent gay jokes are kind of played out, just because…well, I mean, they’re in 10^th grade, they’re not complete idiots…someone’s got to say something. It can’t just be flying under the radar anymore. [Laughs.]

BE: Did you feel the transition of the show as it kind of started to phase out the parent-workplace stories and started to focus in more specifically on the family?

ES: I didn’t think about it until… [Starts to laugh.] It was last season, when I realized that I had not had a day off in, like, months. From January to April, I just didn’t have a day off at all. And I was talking to some of the writers, and I was, like, “Yeah, what happened to the Elhert days?” There were days that would be just a Patty (Heaton) day, and they’d film at Elhert’s and I’d get to sleep ‘til 9 AM. What happened to that? And they explained it to me. They said, “We felt that the family stories were way stronger, and we’d much rather give you an A-line story than use the time to get Bob and Elhert onscreen. We’d rather give you or Charlie or Atticus your own A-line story and not go there. We realize where the gold is.” [Laughs.] So I was, like, “Ohhhhhhh, okay! I’ll take it! I may not get a day off, but that’s a major compliment, so okay!”

BE: As the father of a daughter, I’ve particularly enjoyed the way the Mike and Sue relationship has been evolving over the course of the show’s run.

ES: Oh, my God, I am such a baby: I cry every time Sue has a storyline with Mike. I cry when I read the episode, I cry after I’m done filming the scene, I cry when I watch the episode. [Laughs.] So I’m so happy that you also appreciate that relationship, because it’s my favorite relationship on the show!

BE: Watching Sue and Mike in the car as he attempts to teach her how to drive, that’s just so spot-on with the relationship between my daughter and I.

ES: Oh, really? [Laughs.] The freak-out. Oh, that was a fun time.

BE: One thing that’s interesting, however, is how their relationship veers somewhat dramatically at times, from Mike being completely oblivious as Sue is trying desperately to express her love for him to…well, to bring it back to “The Hose,” when she’s freaking out about the size of his paycheck, he’s very aware of how she feels and we see the sensitive side of him that doesn’t come out very often.

ES: Yes! I agree. But I think it’s pretty reflective of a normal father/daughter relationship in that way. Sometimes his sensitivity will sort of shine through, like when he saves the cat. But not always. [Laughs.]

BE: A couple of obligatory questions. First, who have been your favorite guest stars?”

ES: Oh, my God, I mean, there’s no question: Whoopi, Whoopi, Whoopi. [Laughs.] Whoopi Goldberg. Whoopi “Movie Star” Goldberg. She is a godly woman. Whoopi Godberg…? She was fantastic, and I think she had a really good time working on the show, too. It was a good opportunity for her, and then the actual experience of it for both of us was, I think, a positive one. I can only speak for myself, but we emailed a little bit after, and she seemed to enjoy it herself, so… I was certainly super-pleased, anyway!

BE: How has Norm MacDonald been to work with on the show? He would seem to be the complete antithesis of a family-sitcom guy, but I know he’s got that history with DeAnn and Eileen ( they were all writers on “Roseanne”).

ES: Yes, he… [Starts to laugh.] That’s a good observation. He is awesome. An awesome human being. I talked with him a lot, mostly about…oh, what is his name? Wittgenstein! We were talking about what is real, what is true, and we talked about that for a long time. But that is a very astute observation about him not being, like, a real family-sitcom type. He’s a little bit of a loose cannon, but in the best way possible.

BE: This may coincide at least partially with your Whoopi answer, but do you have particular favorite episodes that were Sue-centric?

ES: Yeah, (“The Guidance Counselor”) definitely is one of them. And also the one in Season 1 where I got to kung-fu fight. That was mighty fun.

BE: Which is funny, because I just revisited that episode in conjunction with Brooke Shields coming back on the show.

ES: Oh, yeah, that was Brooke’s first episode! Yeah, Brooke’s another one where it’s just, like, “Oh, my God, you are such a chill person. Why are you so perfect? You need to leave!” [Laughs.]

BE: Now for a few flashbacks to your pre-“Middle” career. To start off, I’m curious what this credit of “Caterpillar Girl” is all about.

ES: [Laughs.] Oh, my God! Okay. Funny story, actually. That was my first job ever, and it was a short film that I did, but the director is a TV director now who’s pretty well known. Her name is Jamie Babbitt, and she directed a few episodes of ‘The Middle’!

BE: Now, I guess the question is, did she recognize you when she walked onto the set? Or did she already know that you were on the show?

ES: I doubt she would’ve…if she hadn’t known my name, she might not have recognized me, because I was, like, nine or ten when I did the thing. But I was going, “Jamie Babbitt? Why do I know that name?” So I Googled her and saw that one of her first projects was “Stuck,” and I just started freaking out, going, “Oh, my God! I was in ‘Stuck’! That’s Jamie from when I was nine!” And when we were at the table read, she sort of stuck her hand out and introduced herself, and I was, like, “No, Jamie, I don’t know if you remember me, but I did ‘Stuck’!” And she said, “Oh, my God, of course you did! Of course you did! I remember you! Yes!” And I don’t know if she was trying to play it cool or if she actually didn’t remember, but it was still sweet that she remembered me eventually. [Laughs.] And it was great. I was, like, “This is so crazy!” And she was, like, “Yeah, it is…but that’s the industry!”

BE: It’s funny to look back at “Weeds” and see that there are two future ABC sitcom stars in there: you and Allie Grant (of “Suburgatory”).

ES: Oh, I know! And we’re on the same night!

BE: What was the experience of “Weeds” like for you, given that it was a high-profile show and a pretty early role in your career?

ES: Yeah, it was a, uh, pretty different experience. [Laughs.] All sets are different, but I think that one…I was particularly green, and everyone else comparatively had worked so much more. It was very easy to get inundated. I had a great time, it was definitely a learning experience, but I was far less comfortable then than I am here now and likely will be on future jobs.

BE: Now if we could just get Alexander Gould to show up as your boyfriend on “The Middle.”

ES: Oh, my God, I love Alexander Gould, and I would love for him to be on this show.

BE: I know “Sons and Daughters” was at least partially improvised, but did that extend to you and the other younger members of the cast?

ES: Yeah, it was actually pretty… [Hesitates.] Well, I don’t want to say it was wholly improvised, because there was an outline, but the actual words that people were saying changed from take to take, and that did apply to all actors. Of course, for the really little ones, it didn’t, because they could barely speak at all. [Laughs.] But, no, I was able to…it was sort of weird, actually, because “Weeds” I had booked right after “Sons and Daughters,” and I really did not understand the role of the script supervisor. Because this woman kept coming up to me, correcting me, and that’s a pretty word-perfect show. As most are. People think a lot of shows are improvised that really are not. But I remember that I’d be corrected on one little word, and I actually turned to someone and was, like, “Who the hell is this person? All I missed was one word!” And they’re, like, “That’s the continuity person, the script supervisor!” “But continuity…doesn’t that mean that they make sure you pick someone up with the same hand, or you lead with the right foot rather than the left?” “No, they correct you on the lines.” I had never experienced that! I’d only ever experienced improvisation! Which is crazy, when you think about it.

BE: I’d think “Sons and Daughters” would’ve been both a great training ground as well as an incredibly intimidating experience.

ES: Well, no, actually. If I did it now, it would be very intimidating, but because I’d never experienced anything outside of that, I didn’t even question it. I wasn’t scared. Also, Fred Goss and Nick Holly are two amazing people, and they did this really intelligent thing, which was, before we started filming, to have a weekly cast meeting / improv session where we would just sort of…it was sort of just talking, but we sort of built our characters from the ground up that way. We would do scenes and we would improv, and then they would go, “Okay, now do it but have this end goal.” And we’d do it again, and…it was enlightening. It was a little mini improv course, and it was very helpful.

BE: I presume it served you well on “Party Down.”

ES: Well, yes, but that’s one of those shows that’s shockingly more scripted than you think. They do love to play around. It’s much looser than, say, here on “The Middle.” But it’s definitely a scripted show. And I say that because I think the writers deserve a little bit more…not that people don’t respect them, but people just assume that the actors are coming up with a lot more jokes than they really are. [Laughs.]

BE: You and Ryan Hansen got to share a tender moment, as it were.

ES: Yes, we did…and it was so awkward. [Laughs.] Because he was way older than me. And also married. And I was 17 and had a boy friend at the time. And we were both just, like, “Oooooookay, let’s do this!”

BE: I may be the only one who feels this way, but Sue’s obsession with teen pop stars on “The Middle” could almost be a callback to your one-off appearance on “The Middleman.”

ES: [Bursts out laughing.] Oh, my God! Did you see that episode?

BE: I have the complete-series set, I’ll have you know.

ES: Oh, my God. Yes, that was…wow, I sort of forgot about all of my past jobs! [Laughs.] This is so refreshing! I get to talk about something other than what I’m doing right now! Yeah, that was fun. That was super-fun.

BE: I’m curious how you ended up on an episode of Sonny with a Chance. Not that there’s anything wrong with the series, but given the shows you’d done up to that point, it just seems like an odd choice to do a Disney ‘tween-com.

ES: Yes. It does, except for – a moment of honesty here – when someone offers you a role, unless you’re super-busy, you generally don’t turn it down. [Laughs.] This is why I ended up doing an episode of a Disney Channel show this summer, too. It was sort of the same thing, where I was offered the role. I didn’t have to audition or anything, and I just thought, “Okay, this’ll be a few days of filming, I know the people that I’m working with…it’ll be fun!” And…I will leave the story at that. That’s what I thought going into it, and…done with story.

BE: That’s quite all right. And all I will add is that I have talked to at least one other person who did an episode of “Sonny with a Chance” (Bobby Slayton), and he did not leave his story at that, so it’s possible that you had a similar experience to his.

ES: [Laughs.] I would just like to say that, as a rule, the people were so nice. They were such lovely people working on that show, and just to be sure it comes across in print, I am being completely sincere.

BE: Lastly, there’s a credit on your IMDb page for “ImagiGARY,” which Charlie McDermott has both written and directing. If you could offer any details about that project whatsoever, that’d be great.

ES: Yes! I am down to promote this, because it was such an amazing experience. Yeah, Charlie and another one of my best friends, Nate Hartley, wrote this movie. I was involved in the process of them writing it for the last two years, and with every new draft, I was, like, “Okay, I call this role!” And Charlie wanted to direct it himself and wanted to film it in Pennsylvania. It’s this awesome coming-of-age story about a kid – played by Charlie – and his first week of college, just experiencing crazy loneliness, so he re-imagines his old imaginary friend from childhood. And I play the amazing, sure-to-be-critically-acclaimed role of Drunk Girl. [Laughs.]

BE: Wow! That was only listed as “rumored” by IMDb!

ES: [Laughs.] That should not be rumored, because that is fact! And is it also on there that I produced it?

BE: It is. In fact, I was just going to ask you what the experience was like to work behind the camera for a change.

ES: You know, it wasn’t quite as involved as…like, I actually wrote and directed a short film myself in April, and that was pretty stressful. I think Charlie took the brunt of the stress on this. But I was definitely able to help with some of decisions, and I was giving a lot of notes. It’s a lot of note-giving. That’s what producing is. [Laughs.] It’s interesting, though. And watching Charlie…it’s so stressful! I think I’d like to do more behind the camera eventually, but it is a far more stressful position than being an actor, I will say that!

BE: Well, I think that’s about it, except to reiterate that it’s really been great watching you evolve along with your character on “The Middle” over the course of the show’s run to date, and I’ll say it again: you really are a fearless comedienne.

ES: Oh, man, thank you so much! And thank you for this awesome interview! Seriously, these were great questions.

BE: That’s what I get for reviewing the show every week on the AV Club: I’ve actually ended up knowing what I’m talking about.

ES: You really do know what you’re talking about, though. It’s only when I have a really good interview that I realize that there’s really a difference between good interviews and bad interviews. [Laughs.] I try to be really forgiving of those people asking questions, because I know it’s hard, but not until I have a really awesome interview do I go, “Wow, there’s such a difference between someone who knows what they’re talking about and someone who doesn’t!”

BE: Well, I’ll take your praise if you’ll take mine.

ES: Absolutely. Mutual respect! [Laughs.]

Bullz-Eye: To begin at the beginning, how did you find your way into “Hunted”? Was it an audition situation, or did they come looking for you specifically?

Melissa George: They were very strict about making people read. Some jobs, not so much, they know who they want. But “Hunted” is (being produced by) HBO and BBC together, and they were both having to choose and decide, so we had the English with the Americans, so that’s why the audition process was so long.

I was walking on the West Side Highway in New York, and my phone rang. It was my agent saying, “I’ve just read the most dynamic role for a woman, it’s as complex as what you played on ‘In Treatment,’ with a bit of action, which you’ve done before. It’s shooting in Europe, it’s really good, it’s written by Frank Spotnitz, it’s an English and American production…you’ve got to get it.” That’s kind of what he said. And I hate when they say that, ‘cause that means no sleep for me. Because, y’know, of course if it’s that great I want to play it. And I was then shooting a movie with Julia Stiles in Los Angeles (“Between Us”) and I was busy with that, and I had a video camera set up in the hotel room, and I put together a scene. They asked me to do three scenes, but I just did one. It was the one where she confronts her ex in the apartment. Very emotional. And I remember I was just so choked up…and I was recording myself, not speaking to anybody, because I didn’t have an actor reading with me. And I was, like, “Oh, my God, I really love this part…” And I cut, printed, and sent it. I couldn’t do any more scenes because I was really upset. I felt really strongly about this woman. And I waited. I didn’t care, because I was shooting a movie.

Then I got a call saying, “They want you to meet with Frank and read a scene.” I was, like, “Oh, my God…” There were so many freaking people in this room. [Laughs.] So many people! I thought it was just going to be me. Every actor thinks that when you’re asked to read, it’s just gonna be you. But it was a lot of people, and I was on my own. But I met Frank, and he said to me later on, once I’d gotten the role, that he knew from when I put myself on tape, and when I went in to read, he said, “I just feel really connected to her.” But that was it. I didn’t hear for awhile after that, so I was, like, “Ugh, this is gonna be one of those jobs…” And then S.J. (Clarkson), who’s directing, got onboard, and…the director has a big say, so Frank’s got his choice made, BBC and HBO made theirs, but now I have to wait for S.J. to make hers. So I had to meet her. They fly me from New York to L.A. to have lunch, and all we do is talk about film, and then…I was the only girl, but I had to read with lots of guys. And none of the guys I read with got it. [Laughs.] But I was the only girl they were using, and yet still hadn’t told me that I’d got it! And I was, like, “What’s going on here?”

But I was so convinced that I was onboard that I went around convincing everyone else around me that I was. I was, like, “Oh, yeah, I’m gonna be playing this role in a few months…” But I hadn’t heard anything, and I was going, “This is ridiculous! They’re going all over the world looking for this actress, every single country, and I’m, like, “Well, does she have to be from a particular place?” “No, they don’t care where she’s from, because she has to play so many nationalities, so many different languages and accents.” So I waited while they went around the globe, reading hundreds of girls, and they were losing me, because I was going, “Well, if they wait too long…” And then finally everyone was, like, “C’mon, S.J.!” So that’s the story. And it was so funny on set, because while we were filming in Morocco, S.J. would come up to me and speak French, then she’d say, “Oh, sorry, wrong actress.” Like she’d found a girl in France that she really liked. I was, like, “Shut up, I know you didn’t find anybody!” [Laughs.] It was one of those things where the joke went on forever. Like, the whole season of the show. “Sorry, what’s your name?” So I don’t quite know what happened that made it take so long to decide, but I know that when I seize on something, man, I’d better get the job. Because I was honestly delusional. I was, like, “Yes, I’m shooting London in a few months,” and everyone was, like, “But have they said ‘yes’?” “No. But I’m going to be shooting!”

BE: You obviously latched on to the part pretty quickly, but—if it’s not a spoiler—do you recall the particular moment in the script where you first realized, “Oh, I’ve got to do this”?

MG: You know, it was just… I had a very good childhood, so it’s not like I related to this woman losing her mother and being tortured as a child and traumatized to the point where she has to be a spy in order to get revenge on the world. None of that. But when a woman suffers, whether it’s the role I’m playing or not, I just feel like I want to hold them and hug them and be there for them and help them. And as an actress, I also want to show the audience that they’re somebody more than just what you might read. So I think it was just a combination of me feeling for her and then trying to sensitize that. And then all the action…that’s lovely to read when you’re sitting in Central Park and having a coffee. It’s, like, “Oh, this is like a great book!” But the reality of actually shooting the show…? That’s a whole different thing. [Laughs.]

BE: You mentioning Central Park actually ties into what I was just about to observe, which is that you must’ve really wanted the part, given that it necessitated a major move for you.

MG: Well, you know, it’s so strange, because you start fantasizing about this life as this spy and living in London and Morocco, but it’s like I was saying: when you’re sitting in a park, it’s, like, “Oh, that would be so fun,” but then suddenly it’s, “Oh, my God, it really came true!” And once it comes true, you don’t regret it, you’ve got to run with it. But, yes, it’s hard. I mean, I moved to London, and I had the best time and…I miss New York, but I’ve learned that, as an actor, I can’t live my life missing things, because you’re always going to be moving around doing things, the more you fight it, the more depressed you get. You’ve got to approach it, like, “This is great, living in a house I’ve never lived in before!” [Laughs.]